/report!: yaoi, yaoi everywhere

[rageprufrock]

Come one, come all (no, seriously), /reporters! After several geologic eras of my incubating whatever disease killed Gwyneth Paltrow in Contagion, we're finally back to Sunday evening posting! This week mklutz and I are joined by Lianne Sentar of Sleep Is For The Weak to talk about yaoi, boys love, some of its history, some of its many questionable and delightful facets, to give the curious or the nostalgic recommendations, and then we spend some time advocating mklutz's future career in audio porn.

(Fair warning to listeners, as a natural result of the subject matter, we talk quite a bit about dubious consent and nonconsensual sex.)

Right-click here to download or click here to stream online to listen. And, as always, you can subscribe to our RSS feed here.



• Read Bukiyou na Silent here. (NC-17)

• Read Haru wo Daite Ita online here or here. (Exuberantly NC-17; attempted non-con later in the series.)

• Buy Wild Rock here.

• To purchase FAKE, go here, to buy Eerie Queerie, click this, pick up Antique Bakery here.

• mklutz's manga-ka of choice is Naono Bohra.

• To check out manga-ka Toko Kawai, click here. Specific titles of Toko Kawai: Cut (dark but satisfying); Cafe Latte Rhapsody (super sweet); In the Walnut (amazingly classy)

• Check out Tyrant Falls in Love here and Little Butterfly (by same mangaka as Tyrant and Bukiyou na Silent, super sweet) here.

• Approach Maiden Rose with caution here.

• For those ready to try Japanese Drama CDs, here's the SUPER BEST OMG English-language sharing forum and community for BL drama CDs.

And! Last but definitely note least: to look into these Tokyo Demons shenanigans, click here.

Comments

Maiden Rose

[rainwalk]

This comment is now more than a month tardy, but I'm a late-comer to the /report train and just listened to this podcast today.

In regards to issues of consent in yaoi, I think Lianne's rec of Maiden Rose is actually a fantastic choice not in spite of the noncon/dubcon but rather because it as it is possibly the only BL manga I can think of that actually has an honest discussion of rape. Even though Lianne made this sound like a terrifying series (which, to be fair, it is) I think part of the reason it's a harder sell is because it addresses the issue rather unflinchingly rather than tongue-and-cheek or with a hand wave that many yaoi series, like Tyrant, do.

Aside from the compelling sociopolitical mythological backstory which are reasons enough to read the series, I'm almost astonished that it's managed to pop up in yaoi as yaoi not only has an awful record with rape, but especially in regards to partner rape. The general consensus seems to be, "Rape is bad, but it's not rape if it's true love (aka our preferred seme)!" Maiden Rose does a pretty terrific job of addressing the fact that it can still be rape even if you're in a relationship and you love that person and that rape has emotional consequences, but also perhaps touching on the rather taboo concept that, in partner rape, you can still love the person who raped you. Once the top realizes the awfulness of what he's done, he stops and the series attempts to make him redeemable afterwards without make what he'd done excusable, and there's no victim-blaming. Another issue the series manages to hint at is the difficulty in same-sex partnership or rape of reporting abuse because of the shame or secrecy aspect of it which is why the bottom, despite being in a position of respect and authority, continued to be victimized by the seme for so long.

It's understandably not a series everyone will be comfortable to read and most people who read it like it primarily for the art and/or political aspect. However, I think the series does a stellar job at opening a dialogue about discussion of consent issues which slash fiction has had the opportunity to address, but mainly gets overlooked due to the medium/genre it's associated with.

Anyway, I doubt anyone's going to read this, but I just wanted to drop by and leave my kudos for a series that is surprisingly honest, and a +1 for anyone who's interested in reading a manga series that is honest in addressing rape politics and consequences.

Re: Maiden Rose

[liannesentar.livejournal.com]

Moonklutz watches this place with all-knowing eyes. She told me to come respond to you. See how much the /report cares!

You make some really good points about Maiden Rose--the way the rapes are handled in the story is unique, and at no point are you asked to forgive Klaus for what he did. Also, I DO believe the rapes are an important part of the story, because the love story is supposed to be heartbreaking and reading all the flashback chapters after their relationship turns hateful is super heart-breaking.

But I maintain that Volume 1 overdid it. Those rapes were too "porny"--the dirty talk during them and the poses and stuff were clearly meant to titillate, and by the end of Vol 1 I thought the series was only for cheap, violent thrills. When I read Vol 2, Vol 1 made a lot more sense and I gave the mangaka the benefit of the doubt. I know what she was TRYING to do with Volume 1, but I think she missed it and fell into rape cliche. But Volume 2+ are magic. And you brought up a lot of reasons why it's such magic. Thank you for endorsing it and making me sound less like a crazy person.

And I don't think Tyrant brushed off its own rape! The reason I got into that series is because there's a nasty, satisfying fallout after the first rape, and the Tyrant had to seriously consider whether or not he wanted to break off his relationship because of it. The sex after that is definitely "blackmail" territory, but it's not rape, and this isn't a major spoiler of the recent end of the series, but the Tyrant himself brings that up later--that except for the first time, he had the power to end the sex and he never did, even though he constantly bitched about it. Tyrant is all a power-balance romantic comedy, anyway, and the sex falls into the realm of "hate-fucking" in a way. I know that's not for everyone, but I'm really surprised how much people brush it off for being too edgy when they'll read mainstream yaoi that is GENUINELY brush-off about assault (like World's Greatest First Love, by the author of Junjou Romantica). Oh, well.

Nice comment, rainwalk. Glad you liked the episode.

Re: Maiden Rose

[rainwalk]

I'd have to agree that the mangaka overdid it in the first volume, and I think it is a subtlety that got lost on most of the fandom/readers. I mostly stuck with it after that because I love sociopolitical dramas (+1 for Youka Nitta's Secret Diplomacy!) and if there's anything I learned from BL, it's that you have to learn to forgive, and forgive a lot. It was more something I was willing to overlook about the series, which is why I was so pleasantly surprised when it changed into an honest discussion about rape. Maiden Rose is such a hard series to recommend because of the rape though, and especially after how fetishized it is in the first volume, it seems hard to explain to people how well it's handled later, so I just wanted to come and back you up.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree about Tyrant though. You're right that a lot people do brush it off, but I actually read 6 volumes of it before I gave up on it, so I think I gave it a fair chance. I'm glad to hear the mangaka addresses it more later, but I think what really makes me uncomfortable about the series is the top's attitude. Whenever the bottom does things sometimes like defend the top from his father or express worry or how he missed him, the top automatically turns it into a romantic assumption or accuses the bottom of leading him on. I mean, it's pretty clear the bottom does have feelings for him, but the general lack of respect the top shows for him in general (like: "I don't want to have sex in my bathroom because all of my family are sleeping outside" "Too bad, we're having sex anyway) is kind of what makes me squirm. But I probably don't have much room to talk because you're right, a lot of series do completely ignore rape/consent, and one of my favourite series is Viewfinder, which probably automatically nullifies any right I have to talk...

One thing I found interesting though: I remember a while back, a friend of mine found a blog that simultaneously lambasted Hot Gimmick (as it should be) and enthusiastically endorsed Tyrant, and people throwing a fit and accusing the blogger of hypocrisy. I thought that fit in really well with the commentary about how there's an element of removal from yaoi, and (I think) MK's commentary about how she probably would've continued to read HG if it were a BL series. This show was mainly about setting the groundwork for yaoi as a genre, but if you ever come back on the show, I'd love to hear a more in-depth discussion of why fandom is more willing to forgive yaoi for all its faults, especially the social ones.